As In, Calm Down Everybody | CanonWIRED Plugs

Getting By With a Little Help for My Friends - CanonWIRED Plugs

Written by Douglas Wilson

Tuesday, 20 April 2010 08:52

I am not entirely certain, but it appears that Rick Warren tweeted about the first video clip that CanonWIRED put up about the Piper/Warren thing. Here is a second clip to add to the discussion. It is an attempt to be a calming voice in a debate where the voices tend to rise sharply -- I talk about Piper/Warren and the Coming of the Antichrist.

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gullchasedship

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:48 am

Thanks! I really appreciated that.

Frank Turk

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:16 pm

Doug --

Insightful as always. I find myself in agreement with you in theory, and then with that theory firmly in-hand able to recognize the plain criticisms the other side has to make. In theory, I am with you that we need to have some kind of optimism about the Gospel. It's the Gospel, after all -- the power to save, not the fine china which Jesus asked us to make sure doesn't get broken so let's bury it until he returns. We should be optimistic about the Gospel.

Here are the three objections I think the people we are thereby criticizing ought to make:

1. Scripture itself tells us that the way to handle someone of lesser theological inclinations is to rebuke them, not to comfort and give aid to them in affirmation. Piper's approach is not that at all.

2. We admire your optimism, but history proves out to us that the slope of influence always runs down hill, doctrinally. That is, those with better doctrine are most often influenced away from their best selves by associations with people of lower theological inclinations. Billy Graham comes to mind.

3. Speaking of which, you mentioned your interactions with Piper and how he essentially called you out at Lignoier. How did that change you, if at all? Isn't this a good example of how your optimism is overstated at best?

Asked entirely as a friend of the ministry -- the default conservative frowie-face has seen a better day and that at some point we have to believe the Gospel we proclaim to be a great grace from a great God and not merely a treasure we should be afraid of losuing.

Douglas Wilson - great questions

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:26 pm

Frank, great questions, and here is my quick take on them.

1. Scripture tells us how to handle the false teachers, true, and it also teaches us how to handle the good guys who are not up to speed. I would put this one in Priscilla and Aquila taking Apollos aside, and not in the category of the apostle Paul rebuking Benny Hinn. But this could be wrong, which is why I wanted to take a wait-and-see approach.

2. If you take history in 50 year chunks, starting backwards from now, you are exactly right if you only go for three rounds. But suppose you take it in 250 year chunks? The gospel is in a lot better shape than it was three rounds ago.

3. Piper's strategy with me didn't work because I am extraordinarily thick.

That said, I appreciate your questions, and I think lots of people ought to continue to ask them until we all know more.

elisabeth thunderberry - Great interview!

Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:53 am

This is really interesting information.

Rob Boss

Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:04 am

Stephen J. Nichols, research professor of Christianity and Culture at Lancaster Bible College, has an interesting take on Piper/Warren and Edwards and the ecumenical force of Edwards's thought. http://www.jesociety.org/2010/04/20/edwards-brings-them-together-or-john-piper-rick-warren-and-the-powdered-wig/

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