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And Pretend Our Driving is Improving PDF Print E-mail
Atheism and Apologetics - Moist Robots
Written by Douglas Wilson   
Monday, 26 March 2012 06:18

The next chapter that Harris offers is a wee one, asking whether or not the truth he is offering might be bad for us. He doesn't think so, and offers his own testimony -- how "losing the sense of free will has only improved [his] ethics" (p. 45).

There he goes again, writing as though he lost his sense of free will because he somehow discovered the actual state of affairs out there in the world. He does this after spending numerous pages demonstrating why it is, assuming his view of the world, that nobody has any idea of why they do or choose anything -- including why they might want to assume his view of the world.

Although his view of things is stark, he is willing for us to pad it a little bit.

"Our interests in life are not always served by viewing people and things as collections of atoms -- but this doesn't negate the truth or utility of physics" (p. 46).

Translated into plain English, this means that free will is an illusion, albeit an illusion we ought to permit ourselves to function with a bunch of the time. If we admit that we are ultimately being steered, we can "steer a more intelligent course" throughout our mechanistic little lives.

If we admit that Dad is actually driving the car, our three-year-old selves can sit on his lap and pretend we are the ones turning the wheel.



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jay niemeyer  Monday, March 26, 2012 10:52 am
Laying aside Harris' incomprehensible 'reasoning', I still believe that, in 'God's Spoken World' that the conscious grasp of the concept of the bondage of the will makes some sort of important difference...even for Mr. Harris himself.
Like I said before, if you believe that your will is really not free, then, with that in mind, what happens when the next choice comes?
The idea itself has now become another potential factor in decision making.
And if the factor is freedom itself, then has that brought a sort of real freedom into the mix?
Now, regarding this next choice, if every other factor had been exactly as it would have been without the knowledge of what happens when we make choices, then the outcome would be inexorably X. But the knowledge of THIS brings another interesting factor as well.
So, with THIS in mind, you decide differently primarily FOR FREEDOM'S SAKE ITSELF.
THAT might now be, (potentially at least), the prime motivator of the forthcoming choice!

So, could it be that the will is potentially more free than we thought?
jon Erik Ween  Monday, March 26, 2012 11:35 am
Please see post on prior thread (http://www.dougwils.com/Moist-Robots/an-infinite-plane-of-green-velvet.html)

The issue is which model is most profitable to get to a satisfactory solution to the problem. "Solution" will be relative to your world-view, though some are likely to be inherently self-contradictory (like Harris'). From a Christian perspective, we MUST realize that there are final common paths. No matter how we slice this theologically, God brings about His kingdom through living stones. Hence, an appropriate model of these stones is necessary for a proper understanding of God's Will, which I am persuaded we are commanded to pursue. So, depending on how much of the current neuroscientific model we are willing to swallow, we have to figure some of it into OUR models. Ultimately, it is a brain directing a set of nerves, controlling a set of muscles that (in collaborations with other, similar assemblies) builds machines to smash atoms, writes symphonies, turns the other cheek and worships God, within a universe created by God and superintended by God. Where free will ultimately lands in all this is less relevant, seems to me, than grasping the overall set of relationships. I believe Job did this very thing, and sitting in the ash heap he simply quit talking... Then other stuff happened!

SDG

Jon
jay niemeyer  Monday, March 26, 2012 4:11 pm
Quote:
Ultimately, (the correct model) is a brain directing a set of nerves, controlling a set of muscles that (in collaborations with other, similar assemblies) builds machines to smash atoms, writes symphonies, turns the other cheek and worships God, within a universe created by God and superintended by God. Where free will ultimately lands in all this is less relevant, seems to me, than grasping the overall set of relationships


Why is the place of current neuroscientific research of more 'correct' as per our place in God's work and sovereignty over creation than the real state of the 'freedom of the will'?
Perhaps I misunderstand your point, but it seems to me that ideas and immaterial things are at least as important as the physical phenomena.


jon Erik Ween  Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:16 pm
Jay

Not sure I argue what is "more correct", but the funny thing about final common paths is they are inescapable. You have to figure them in. The higher order stuff gets more...abstract? Dunno. Now, the whole neuron model might be wrong. There may be no such things as neural networks regulating peripheral nerves stimulating muscles... Maybe the whole thing is a manifestation of ideal forms. Never the less, following Wile-Coyote, the anvil falling on your head will likely be of more importance to you than who might have dropped it. In the short term, at least.

SDG

Jon